2GB: Who'll Replace Alan Jones?

E&OE TRANSCRIPTRADIO INTERVIEW2GB BEN FORDHAM LIVE15 MAY 2020Topics: Alan Jones's breakfast slot; coarse language; COVID-19; China; Virgin AustraliaBen FordhamWell, we've been having some fun with former prime minister Kevin Rudd this week because K-Rudd posted a selfie on social media. He was sitting there at a microphone with his headphones on. And he had those fancy white headphones as well, that the cool kids have. And he was claiming that he was thinking about putting up his hand to replace Alan Jones on breakfast radio. And I responded by playing some of his Greatest Hits. And considering he's on hold, I don't know whether this is really the dumb thing to do right now. But I was suggesting, I'll do it, I mean, I was suggesting that he'd have to have the seven-second delay ready because you can't go doing thisKevin RuddThis [bleep]ing language just complicates it! Tell them to cancel this meeting at six o'clock, will you? I'm just not going to have the [bleep]ing patience to do it. Just [bleep]ing hopeless.Ben FordhamSo you'd need the dump button for K-Rudd. You'd have to have it there ready to go all the time. But I did say they'd be an added bonus because he can speak Mandarin.Kevin Rudd[Speaking Mandarin]Unknown SpeakerHe could read Spinal Eze ads in two languages, and therefore I'm guessing Moe at Spinal Eze would pay for his ad twice. That makes sense, doesn't it? Well, anyway, Kevin Rudd responded. And he announced that he was now pulling out of the race to fill Alan Jones's shoes. And he was wishing me well with a new role. He said in a letter: 'Trust you enjoyed the joke. Rest easy. I've decided against throwing my hat into the ring for the slot. My best regards to your listeners. And as for you, Ben: do your worst, as you've always done'. Kevin Rudd, good afternoon.Kevin RuddBen, how are you? Doing well?Ben FordhamNow, but earlier. Thank you very much for your note how are you doing?Kevin RuddI'm doing fine. Thank you. By the way, my friend, I assume you've never dropped any F-bombs in your life. Am I right?Ben FordhamWell, none none that have been caught on type as far as I know.Kevin RuddWell, there you go, mate. Just goes to prove we're both human, doesn't it?Ben FordhamHow did that happen? How did that tape get out? Did you ever work that out?Kevin RuddYeah, actually what happened was, I was recording some Chinese New Year greetings around about February, I think 2010. And what happened was, I'd asked the Department of Foreign Affairs to organize a very simple Chinese language text. Then I sat down and some bright spark came up with a really complex version. It was kind of like, I just wanted to do something in Aussie English they came up with sort of an early Shakespearean sonnet in Chinese language style. So I struggled my way through it, got to the very end of it after a minute and 30 seconds, and then I fluffed it up. And that's why I just got cranky because I had so many things to do that afternoon. Anyway. How did the tape get out? Well, the tape after the coup in June of 2010 it was by mistake left in Gillard's office. And then it ended up in the control, I think, of that guy called McTernan. I don't know if you remember him.Ben FordhamOh, yeah. He was running Julia Gillard's office.Kevin RuddYeah, Press Office here. Yes. And so a couple of years later, when people were not very happy with Julia and they were polling me versus Julia and I was looking strong in the polls, and various of her supporters were putting up their hand saying, I don't think it's good for Julia to be leader any longer, mysteriously this tape was dropped to the media in order to create an entire media diversion, create a crisis which then ended up with me being removed as foreign minister, so there you go. That's the story.Ben FordhamWho was the dope who left the tape behind in the prime ministerial drawer? It wasn't you, was it?Kevin RuddUh, no mate. I don't keep keep tapes like that. But I think the more apposite question is the ethics of someone finding such a tape, choosing to keep it and then choosing to disseminate it, given it was someone else's property. Anyway, that's how then how the K-Rudd F-bombs got out. But I'm glad none of the Fordham F-bombs have got out so far.Ben FordhamWell look, you were very funny online this week when you posted that photo on social media suggesting that you might be a frontrunner or at least a consideration to take over from Alan Jones. Big shoes to fill.Kevin RuddWell, you mentioned before the flash white-colored headphones. I was just sitting at my desk doing a bit of work and my son who has flash white-colored headphones, plonked them on me. And then my staff said, because I was on FaceTime with my staff at the time, said you could take over the broadcast slot. So that's where it all came from. A spur of the moment joke, stuck it up online.Ben FordhamOh, anyway.Kevin RuddIt went off and if we can't have a sense of humour in Australian politics, what's the point, my friend?Ben FordhamAbsolutely. I agree with that. Now let me ask you something serious.Kevin RuddI didn't do it. I didn't do it.Ben FordhamYou know, he didn't do it. That's right. We're always innocent until proven guilty and then it was always someone else's fault anyway. Now listen --Kevin Rudd-- [Crosstalk] the Murdoch media.Ben Fordham-- on China, Mr Rudd. Look, this is a difficult one, isn't it? Because we know that Coronavirus came from Wuhan, we know that we've got to do something about that, we've got to get to the bottom of it, but then when you have threats coming in and suspensions coming in and fire in terms of trade, it is complicated because China is our largest trading partner by a longshot. But on the other hand, the Chinese president is accused of knowingly letting this deadly virus out of Wuhan, it went to 200 countries, killed more than 300,000 people so far. Do we have a right to get to the bottom of this without China saying OK, we're going to retaliate?Kevin RuddAbsolutely, Ben. That's always In my view, in fact, before this thing blew up in Australia, back in the United States where I normally live and work -- I run an American think tank since I left the prime ministership here in Australia -- I signed an open letter together with former American secretaries of state, Republican and Democrat, calling for an open investigation into the origins of the virus, the transmission of the virus, notification of the virus, what did the World Health Organization do or not do, etc. And so when Prime Minister Morrison came out with that proposal, I said I was in basic agreement with it. I think he could have gone about it in a slightly more diplomatic way and that is by bringing a bunch of other countries along with it in order to make it not just an Australian initiative, but a genuine international initiative. But in terms of the reactions in the Chinese Ambassador at the time, I thought it was right over the top and, as I said at the time, completely unacceptable to issue threats against your host country.Ben FordhamSo what do we do right now when China's talking tariffs and when they're suspending exports from Australian abbattoirs to China? You know, if you were the foreign minister now or the prime minister now, how do you handle China?Kevin RuddYeah, as I said to Mr Morrison when I went and saw him at Kirribilli, just after he won the last election, look, handling the China relationship is hard for any prime minister. It was in my time. It has been for my successors, and it's getting harder over time. So look, I'm not going to say to you, Ben, this is easy, and easy to fix, and here's the simple A-B-C. But the bottom line is, I think if you're going to put out a proposal like Mr Morrison did for this global investigation into China's culpability for the virus, it's just smarter to bring five or 10 countries along with you, because it makes it much harder then for China to retaliate against a group of significant countries rather than just one. Anyway, that's the background, but we are where we are right now. I think what I would do is try and reduce the temperature a bit. I'd try and get on the phone to my counterpart in Beijing and have an off the record conversation about how we can put some balance into the relationship. But to be honest, I think we're in for a pretty rough road, at least for the next six months or so while the Chinese economy and the international economy eventually recovers from the corona hit. There's no silver bullet here. I would just aim to take the temperature down when the opportunity arises.Ben FordhamYou mentioned Scott Morrison. Would you agree that he's done a good job getting us through COVID-19?Kevin RuddI think, to be honest, I think he's got some things right. I think he's a bit late with a few things, and one or two things wrong. I think what he's got right has been the general mix of public health measures. We may have been helped in the southern hemisphere by the fact that the virus hit here when it was summer and remembering we've still got a southern winter to come. So, but I give him a tip for that. On the economic measures, what I'd say is his wage guarantee was something many of us were calling for before he did it, I would have simply said, announce your wage guarantee before you lock the economy down so that employers could then have kept their people on staff or on furlough. Whereas he did it sort of in the reverse way and it was a three or four day gap. And finally, there's one thing I disagree with, which is when Virgin collapsed, I wouldn't have just let it go to the wall. What I would have said is, look for a temporary investment from the government or a temporary loan from the government, we will keep the airline going, keep 10,000 jobs in place, and as the economy recovers, we'll then have that loan repaid so the taxpayer gets their money back. And that's not unprecedented the way in which you handle crises like this. So I give him a mixed report card but, as I said, As far as the public health measures have gone so far, OK.Ben FordhamWould it would it be really the smartest time to be trying buckets of money into an airline when the airline isn't really flying?Kevin RuddI'm not talking about throwing buckets of money. Making a loan is quite a different matter. For example, the Republican government in the United States in my time as prime minister during the global financial crisis, literally extended unlimited loans to a very large number of American financial institutions to prevent them from going bust. It was called the TARP scheme, the temporary asset recovery program. And then five or 10 years later, when the economy had restabilized, etc, all those loans were paid back and, in fact, the American taxpayer earnt probably about an extra 10% on that investment over time. That's what governments can do. So I'm not talking about a gift to a company. And remember, Mr Morrison's government has written a $50 million cheque to regional newspapers including Mr Murdoch's regional newspapers around Australia to keep them afloat at this time. So they have done that. And that's a grant, that's a gift. This could be alone. All I'm concerned about is 10,000 jobs, most of them in my home state of Queensland, and how do you keep them afloat? And still, the taxpayer gets repaid when the economy writes itself over the next year or so.Ben FordhamYou're very generous sharing some time with us this afternoon. And thank you for not putting your name forward officially to host the breakfast program, because you would have been some serious competition. Before I let you go. I'm just wondering, do ex-prime ministers have a bit of a club? Like do you and Julia and Tony and Malcolm, do you hang out?Kevin RuddYou want the honest answer that that, mate? No.Ben Fordham[Laughing]Kevin RuddI could tell you some white lies about that and pretend it was something other than it is. But I've had the odd conversation with Malcolm, infrequently with Julia for reasons I think your listeners would probably be aware of, Mr Howard and I are not big tennis partners. And as for Tony Abbott, I think the Australian public should be kept well and truly distant from a picture of me in Speedos. So there you go.Ben FordhamGood to catch up and thanks for the sense of humour.Kevin RuddOkay mate, look after yourself. Good luck with the program.Ben FordhamReally appreciate it. Former prime minister Kevin Rudd.