Ambassador Kevin Rudd discusses US tariffs: ABC 7.30

Transcript produced by the ABC

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SARAH FERGUSON, PRESENTER: The Albanese Government is hardening its language in response to President Trump's decision to impose tariffs on Australia 

Overnight US Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick called out Australia amongst Americas enemies on trade.  

HOWARD LUTNICK, US COMMERCE SECRETARY:  And we're not going to stand for China dumping, Japan dumping or Australia does a lot of aluminium at below cost - I mean this has got to end, and the President is on it and he's protecting America. 

SARAH FERGUSON:  Ambassador and former PM Kevin Rudd has been working around the clock to change the administration's position - including three recent meetings with Secretary Lutnick. 

But, Rudd says, Australia faces a new implacable America. He joined me earlier from Washington. 

Ambassador Rudd, welcome to 730 

KEVIN RUDD, AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES:  Good to be back on the program. Sarah,

SARAH FERGUSON:  You were meeting with Commerce Secretary Lutnick in the lead up to the announcement on the tariffs. Was he listening Australia's arguments?

KEVIN RUDD:  I think it's really important, Sarah, just to step back a little bit and understand that the America we're dealing with since the 20th of January, is a vastly different America from the past, and in fact, significantly different from the period of Trump 1.0, the first Trump administration. 

This administration is more nationalist on questions of foreign policy, more protectionist on trade policy, and much more transactional in its overall approach to international negotiations. 

We've seen that very much reflected in the way in which the administration's approached these tariff negotiations as well. These are deep seated fundamental changes in this different America which every one of the 36 countries who negotiated tariff exemptions on steel and aluminium last time round, back in 2017 have had to contend with this time round. 

You're right to say that with Secretary Lutnick I've had considerable and ongoing discussions right through the end of last week, in fact, starting a little earlier than that, and through into the early days of this week.

These have been straightforward, hard, direct, and I think the Secretary understands full well Australia's negotiating position, which is, we are long standing free trade partners with the United States. We impose zero tariffs against any American export. We've never had a trade surplus with America and on top of that, America has a two to one surplus against us. Those arguments at this stage at least have not prevailed. 

SARAH FERGUSON:  What was the atmosphere like in in the room during those meetings?

KEVIN RUDD:  Well, remember these Lutnick negotiations as Secretary of Commerce have come on the back of a whole process kicked off by the Prime Minister's conversations with the President on the telephone the day after he got elected, and again last month in February, where he laid out the framework for our negotiations on tariffs and trade. 

And since then, we've had a series of negotiations involving ministers Wong, Minister Chalmers, the Treasurer, as well as myself and the embassy team. 

The Lutnick negotiations are probably one round of about 10 sets of discussions we've had right across the US system. 

With Secretary Lutnick, who very much now carries the President's mandate, however, it's been tough, direct. He himself asserting this new Trumpian worldview that I referred to before, which is America will be hardline and transactional in its approach, even to long standing friends, partners and allies. 

So it's been tough and hard, but we have delivered our arguments as equally firmly back. So far, they haven't prevailed on this, but as I said before, we'll continue in these discussions for a long time to come. We're Australian. We don't give up that easily.

SARAH FERGUSON:  I want to ask you about the phone calls. Why wouldn't President Trump take a follow up call from Anthony Albanese in the lead up to the announcement?

KEVIN RUDD:  As I said before Sarah, the entire framework for these 10 sets of meetings with a whole range of cabinet secretaries, including Secretary Lutnick, was laid out in that first telephone call just last month between the President and the Prime Minister, where the PM made our core arguments and then commissioned a process.

And so the bottom line is, as we got to the end of this negotiating process, at least at this stage in this rapid series of meetings, starting at the end of last week, with the Commerce Secretary, Secretary Lutnick, I formed the judgment that it was then useful to make a further request for a further follow up call by the Prime Minister with the President, and by the time the decision was taken, however, on Tuesday of this week, late Tuesday, we had not been able to secure that time. 

But frankly, remember this, 36 other countries, if all these interventions from other governments, either through telephone calls in some cases, even the odd visit, such as the British Prime Minister, was not able to deliver outcomes on steel and aluminium for them, I think it stands to reason we should question whether, in fact, even this request for a late telephone call would have necessarily made a material difference. 

We're up against a deep, ideological, strategic view of this Trump administration that they intend not to produce qualifications from the positions on tariffs that they undertook in the last administration because of their deep view of their relationship with the rest of the world and the global economy.

SARAH FERGUSON:  The Opposition Leader Peter Dutton says, that if he's if he were Prime Minister, he'd be able to get an exemption. What do you say to that?

KEVIN RUDD:  Well, Mr Dutton obviously is participating in the domestic Australian political debate. I'm not going to be in the business of commenting on the Leader of the Opposition's views. 

What I can say here is that Team Australia, led by myself as ambassador, have thrown everything at this since 20 January, the day of the inauguration. Over the last six or seven weeks, I probably had a team of 20 government officials working on this. 

We've had three sets of government ministers in town, two sets of prime ministerial phone calls, but we are up against an administration which has a very deep-seated view that tariffs are the way to the future. 

We disagree with that view, but I'm simply describing the reality and that therefore their relationship is not going to be a replication of the first Trump administration. It's going to be much harder line. But we don't intend to give up. We're Australian. 

SARAH FERGUSON:  In an interview overnight Commerce Secretary Lutnick said that other sectors will face tariffs, including pharmaceuticals, which are a much bigger export to the US for Australia. How concerned are you that other parts of the Australian economy will face US tariffs?

KEVIN RUDD:  Well, as I said earlier in this interview, we are very vigilant about where further reviews of American trade policy in the weeks and months ahead could land. 

This set of negotiations is not over yet with this new and highly protectionist America. In terms of individual sectors, I think it's premature to speculate. 

We're working our way through that with US officials, but this is a very hard-fought set of negotiations which have already been had, and there are more hard fought negotiations which lie ahead. 

SARAH FERGUSON:  Critical minerals has been raised as being an important part of these negotiations. So what role exactly are they playing?

KEVIN RUDD:  Australia has a range of advantages to bring to the table on the question of how to assist the United States given certain of its own national strategic vulnerabilities. 

You may recall Prime Minister Albanese with President Biden a couple of years ago, agreed on a critical minerals compact with that administration to up Australia's level of supply. 

We can do the same with this administration. If you do the maths, it's pretty interesting. America designates itself as having 50 categories of critical minerals, which it needs for the future, 50 priority categories. They see themselves as being vulnerable in 12 of those, and they are import dependent in 40 of those. 

For Australia, if you look at those 50, we are currently supplying 28 and can supply 36 of them. You see, Australia equals the periodic table. 

We also have the biggest and best mining companies in the world, so we stand ready to assist, as we did with the Biden administration. We didn't get there in the end with them, but of course, that remains on the table from us. Also with this administration, we are uniquely positioned to be able to do this. 

SARAH FERGUSON:  Ambassador Rudd, thank you for joining us. 

KEVIN RUDD:  Good to be with you on the program.